I want to talk about why you should stop keeping score, because that's other people's jobs. The reason this is important is because in everything that we do, especially in business, everything is measured ultimately by metrics. But those metrics are useless unless you play the game.

Cliff notes:

  • The goal is to play the game
  • Everyone else is “keeping score”
  • We often measure success by what other’s have “won”
    • Money
    • Fame
    • Audience
    • Recognition
    • Achievements
    • Published work
  • We sometimes see ourselves as losing when we get a bad score
    • Tax bill
    • Refund request
    • Bad review
    • Lost revenue
    • No revenue
  • When we’re running our business it can seem like we’re losing and others are winning
  • Business is a game, but its a game of endurance
  • You might be losing now, but you have one massive advantage
    • You decide how long you play
  • People say it’s a marathon, not a sprint
  • It’s a feat of endurance
  • Keep your eye on the goal, everything else is a detail
  • Others might pass you, but it’s a long long game
    • it doesn’t end until you want it to
  • Story: MailChimp, founded 2001
    • Basecamp, founded 2004
    • Jo Pavey running since 1997

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Stop keeping score - just keep playing

Hey funnel builders. Welcome to another episode of the sell your service podcast. I'm your host, Mike Killen. Today. I want to talk about. Stop keeping score because that's other people's jobs. The reason this is important is because. In everything that we do, especially in business, everything is measured ultimately by metrics.

[00:00:24] When it really boils down to it, it ultimately boils down to, um, how much money you make. And this of course is. Necessary it's important, but there are so many other little things that can appear like wins and losses. And. You know, there's a lot of advice that like, don't compare yourself to other people don't compare yourself, like where you are now to where another businesses today, because they bought might've been going longer.

[00:00:51] And ultimately, I actually think kind of all of that. Can be replaced by one statement, which is stop keeping score. If you think of running your business, like, you know, I'm playing a game, which is ultimately what it is. The game of life, right.

[00:01:11] The goal is to keep playing the game. That's your job is to play the game.

[00:01:18] If you look at a sports team. And they play soccer or rugby or American football or basketball. Or if you, even if you're looking at a professional athlete, like a singular athlete, like a tennis player or a golfer or a swimmer. Their job is to do the sport they're job is to. Score goals. Pass it. Play with their teammates. Their job is actually not to put their score on the scoreboard.

[00:01:47] That's someone else's job. And this is an interesting philosophy because.

[00:01:54] I think we see these kind of rousing moments in film and TV and media of like the chips are down. The score is really low and they, the team fights back and they end up, they keep it on the score and it's like, look, it's three points in it. And they play and they win. I don't think that happens. It especially doesn't happen business. And the reason that doesn't happen in business,

[00:02:16] Is because you can decide how long do you play for imagine. How different. Sport games of sport would be. If instead of a timer, they just said, yeah, just keep going until one of you basically packs it in. Now that is a very different type of measuring metric. And that's what I want to talk about because.

[00:02:37] Everyone else around you is keeping score. Your bank managers, keeping score, maybe your partner, your wife, your husband, your kids are keeping score. Uh, you've got colleagues, keeping score. You've got a friend's family competition, keeping score. Everyone else is doing that. Like tax. You know, that's a score.

[00:02:57] And we often measure success by what other people have one essentially by the points that they have scored, what have they scored? And then I have money might have fame, um, like in, in literal sense, they might have more subscribers than you, or more email subscribers or more customers or more revenue or whatever.

[00:03:16] They might have recognition. Like they might be awarded something and you're not, maybe they have a certain achievements, like they've, they've completed certain milestones, which you haven't done. You know, they've got. Five locations or they've got 10 people on their team or one person on their team, or maybe they've got like lots of published work. So they've got like an IMD be profile or they have a Wikipedia page or they have.

[00:03:42] Uh, 200 podcast episodes or, you know, or a book or whatever. And we look at all the things that other people have scored. We look at all the other things that people have. Achieved and marked off. And we see those numbers going on, the scoreboard and we look, and we think I haven't scored as many as them. I haven't achieved as much as them.

[00:04:03] And often we see what other people have one and we see what we're, we've lost that. That's like a classic human psychology paradox. We see what other people have scored and we see what we have lost. So other people score, you know, they have achievements and, uh, they have certain amounts of money and recognition and fame and metrics and stuff like this.

[00:04:23] And then we look at what we've lost when we get something bad happened to us. And maybe we get a tax bill come through, or we look at our credit card debt, or we have a refund request. I know that they used to like hit me particularly hard. You get a bad review, you get a bad statement. You look at lost revenue, maybe or zero revenue. If you're looking at your bank.

[00:04:45] And these can be like almost negative points or at least, you know, a margin between what someone else has and what we don't. And this is not a case of don't compare yourself. You know, we're all special rule individual or unique. None of that skip that bullshit. What I want to talk about is you need to stop keeping score because that's other people's job.

[00:05:08] Your job is to play the game. That's it. If business is a game, it's an insurance event.

[00:05:17] When we're running our business, it can seem like we're losing and other people are winning. But that's that snapshot in time. That's at that particular moment in time. And instead you need to start looking at your business. As being in one part of like a snapshot of a longer term insurance play, because business is a game, but it is a game of endurance. You get to decide how long you play the game for.

[00:05:48] There's no denying that there are scores on the board 100%. There are there there's scores comparing you in terms of revenue, size, audience size, the amount of leads you generate recognition, fame, trust, all of this. All of it can be measured.

[00:06:03] But the first thing is it's not your job to measure it. None of that matters whenever you get bad news through doesn't matter, your job is to keep playing the game. I remember a few years back when I first started. I had, um,

[00:06:18] Uh, you know, like everyone, a rough time kind of getting, going and getting started. And for some reason, I remember having a particular. Um, I never, we call it rivalry seems very strong. There was another agency in the area. And this guy had a real being is bonnet. All of a sudden this kid from London and moved down and said, he's going to start building websites and doing social media for people. And he was furious by this and did everything he could to.

[00:06:46] It was so petty looking back at it now it's so petty. He would keep me out of like local chamber of commerce events. And, um, he also was going around telling like customers who I'd found that, um, You know, I was, uh, like stealing ideas and stuff and it was just overall making my life very difficult.

[00:07:08] And I remember thinking this guy is literally like, I didn't think this type of stuff existed, but sure enough, you know, small towns, especially in, in the United Kingdom, small towns have a reputation of being kind of unwelcoming and unfriendly and not particularly geared toward business. And sure enough, this guy was.

[00:07:23] Embodying that perfectly. Anyway.

[00:07:28] I remember being told by a colleague of mine, another Michael, who also was having a bad time. With this guy. He was like, just keep playing the game. Michael was kind of a bit of a mentor to me. Um, a little bit older. Uh, I had been running like a hosting company, an it company for a long time. And he was like, just keep playing the game. You have no idea. What's around the corner. It can seem like this guy is winning right now. It can seem like this guy's winning right now.

[00:07:55] And sure enough. Within, I don't know what it's been now. It's almost been 10 years since I set up that business eight years. His business doesn't really exist anymore. This, this, you know, Dick had guy, his business doesn't really exist. He's had to fire all of the people who remember he had this one guy called David.

[00:08:13] Who actually came to a meeting, came to like it, you know, you have like Brett breakfast, networking events. He actually came to one of those breakfast networking events to have a go at me. And obviously my side of the story is I'm not doing anything wrong, not by a long shot. But for some reason, this guy was like, had a real being is bonnet and really wanted to kind of, um, get it out. And presumably it's like a, uh, a fear thing, maybe like an older man fear thing.

[00:08:39] Um, And he actually came to this event and confronted me. And he was like, he was, you know, sand, some pretty aggressive stuff. Like what? You better watch yourself. I was like, this is insane being threatened by this kind of balding overweight middle-aged man. And sure enough, he lost his job there because the guy couldn't afford to pay him anymore.

[00:08:58] And it makes me look back and think, you know, we look at these immediate snapshots where we're winning or we're losing, but it's not about that because you decide how long you play the game for you decide you how long you are in the game for. And when you understand that you can think, yeah, right now,

[00:09:16] I am losing and I might be losing badly and I might be losing comparison to everybody else. And. Of the 10 other businesses you started in 2020 or 2015 or 2010 or 1995. Other people are in this position. But the world is a funny place and your job is to keep playing. It is not to keep score when you become too.

[00:09:42] Focused on the score. And when you become too focused on keeping track and comparisons between where everyone else is in the other teams, You lose focus on the game. You might be losing now, but you have a massive advantage in that you decide how long you play. And I mean this for everything. If you have a tax bill come through and you think, how the fuck am I going to pay this?

[00:10:06] That's big. That's a big, bad score, but you get to decide how long you play this for. You get to decide when you pack it in. You can keep playing other people are keeping score. And if anything, I use this to my advantage. I let other people keep score. Other people are obsessed with keeping score on my business.

[00:10:26] Um, other businesses, accountants, competition. I regularly get emails from people saying, Hey, this guys, you know, Doing another course on selling marketing funnels or this guy's doing videos like this or whatever. And, um, you know, other people have kind of ripping off your books or whatever. Great. Let them do that.

[00:10:44] If they want to keep score, and if that's how they want to run their business fine, but they're going to be exhausted. Cause I know how exhausting it is just to play the game yet alone, play the game and keep score.

[00:10:56] We're often told, you know, it's a marathon, not a sprint. And even that, you know, I think is, is, uh, it's a good, a better analogy, but it's still not perfect because, and there are races like this, it's a feat of endurance where you get to just keep going. Imagine running a race and you keep running.

[00:11:15] And the goal is to be the last person running. And there are events like that. You get to decide how long you keep going for. You get to decide how long you play the game for.

[00:11:30] You get to decide when the whistlers called the huge advantage you've got in your business. Is the other people are keeping score for you. They will, they will keep telling you what you need to focus on next. Pay your bills, increased staff salaries. You know, set aside money for tax. There, there are billions of examples of things to do and tactics to play and scores to keep great. Let them do that. Your job is to keep playing.

[00:11:56] You get to decide how long you play for.

[00:12:01] And when the whistle is called, you get to decide when you get to stop. Others might even pass you. Other other people might even start later than you and go past you. But again, it is a long, long game. It's a long, long life that we have. Most of us. It's a long life and it doesn't end until you wanted to the business doesn't end until you want it to the game. Doesn't end until you want it to.

[00:12:31] It's a long feat of endurance and the reality is most people don't have the stones to keep it going. Back in 20. 16 2017 when cellular service is really kicking off. I remember immediately getting an email from someone saying, Hey, this guy is teaching people how to sell marketing funnels. And at the time I was devastated, cause it looked like he had a massive audience. He had like a bigger podcast and YouTube and he had advertising money and I could see him.

[00:12:57] You know, advertising and stuff. I can see businesses now advertising on Facebook. Like here's how to set up a marketing agency. Here's how to sell and deliver marketing agency. Um, to like your, uh, customers and stuff. It's a long game. It is a long, long game. And I know. I know of. Five or six businesses that are tied to go after my market who have realized how difficult it is.

[00:13:25] And then quit. We all know businesses do do that. You've probably done it. I've done it. We go, do you know what I'm going to go into? T-shirt manufacturing. Because you think, yeah, that's, that's the goal, right? That's that would be really easy. It's really like, kind of scalable. It's very hands-free and I don't have to do too much, and it might even be passive income for lack of a better term.

[00:13:44] And then you realize, fuck, this is hard work. This is way harder than I thought it would be. The promotion side is difficult. The, uh, the design side is difficult and you think, well, I'm going to pack it in. And so many people do that. They will give it a year, two years. According to Forbes and inc a business doesn't really become successful until about six or seven years in. Okay. So I want you to think about that.

[00:14:08] That's if you're doing all the right things, it doesn't become successful in about six, seven years in. If you doubled. Your revenue every single year for 10 years, let's do the maths right for tennis for 10 years. Let's say you start your first business. Does. In the first year, let's say does 50 grand. Okay. Start year one 50 grand year two is a hundred grand.

[00:14:30] Okay. If you, this is, if you double it every year, year two is a hundred grand. Year three is 200 grand. Then 400 grand. Then 800 grand than 1.6 minutes. That saves six years of nonstop. If you know what you're doing, you do it every day. And you double the size of your business. It's 1.6 million in six years.

[00:14:51] Yes. Seven is 3.2 million, most businesses who say, yeah, we're between 1.6 and 3.2 million, or, you know, between one and 3 million still say that they struggle with attracting customers attracting leads. They still feel like they're not doing the right things. They still feel like they're struggling with where they need to go.

[00:15:10] I know people who give their business six months before they pack it in. Not even that.

[00:15:17] But even to become successful or even recognized takes at least six to seven years. We've all heard the phrase. You know, it takes, what is it? 14 years to become an overnight success longer. Even I've got a bunch of examples. I want to talk about some big examples who have been going for decades. And only now are beginning to see kind of exponential growth.

[00:15:42] And we're so quick to quit. You know, people talk about how it's important to quit. It's important to know when to give up. It's important to know when to stop. And. Sure. I absolutely can understand that. And if it's course about balance and there's always specific circumstances. But all too often, I think I see people who are quitting, who haven't really given it a full chance. Imagine that six to seven years to see a business really become successful and to come into fruition.

[00:16:11] Right.

[00:16:13] Most people will give up maybe year one, year two, or they'll then focus and pivot and change their focus and change their market changed their niche. They do that bullshit rebrand thing. We're like, no, we've come up with a better name. We've got redoing our website. None of that matters. Your job is to play the game. Right? And in this particular example of the game is to score goals, cave, where if we're a sports team,

[00:16:38] So the mission is to just score goals, just to score as many goals as you can, right? That's the mission play better than the other team keeps scoring as many goals as you can. You get to decide when the whistle is blown. So many people will play the game, decide, Nope, I want to quit. I can see other people are getting ahead of me. I can see this is too difficult. I'm losing. I'm not where I want to be. I'm going to change the game or I'm going to change the mission. But I know a lot of people, maybe you're one of them who goes into business, not even really knowing what the mission is. They go in, not.

[00:17:08] Entirely a hundred percent certain. Of what the goal is like, well, how do I know? They'll go, they'll start playing and they don't know how am I going to score goals or should I score goals?

[00:17:20] And that's where this a problem of endurance comes in because. If you don't have an idea of what the ultimate end result is, why would you stick it out for this long? I've talked about my friend, Sarah Turner before she's the mum. And I've got a podcast interview with her, go back and find it. Absolutely fascinating. It's the same with, um, uh, Chavonne from the positive birth company.

[00:17:45] Both have experienced. I recall like explosive success, multiple best-selling books, uh, like a six, possibly even a seven figure app company. Um, and then you kind of speak to them. You say, well, how long were you doing it for free? Essentially not getting paid. How long were you doing it? Where it wasn't a success. And they were like, Oh, five years, six years.

[00:18:07] And Sarah gets this question a lot. She's asked, uh, how do you, um, like how do I get started as a mommy blogger? How do I get started in blogging? I want to do blogging, not even mommy blogging, just blogging. She's like great. Get a website, write every single day. Don't make any money for three to four years. And then eventually you'll start making a little bit of money.

[00:18:29] And. It, you know, a lot of people at that stage. I like why I don't want to do that cause I want success immediately. And that's fine if you want success immediately. Great. I always say this to people. If you want to make $1 million are not doing any work, it's just going to cost you $1 million. That's it's fine. I can make you $1 million.

[00:18:46] If you don't want to do any of the work, I can absolutely make you $1 million. It's just going to cost you $1 million. He was out. I don't have $1 million. Great. In that case, you need to have 100,000 people know who you are and you need to make $10 from every single one of those people are. I don't have 100,000 people. Right.

[00:19:02] Well, then the only thing you've got left is time. You need to invest an enormous amount of time to accumulate that audience and accumulate that wealth in order to reach those goals. Okay. I don't want to give him that time. Well, I don't know how else. I can't create something from nothing.

[00:19:17] But that, that. Insurance and that commitment to keep going.

[00:19:25] It's not even a case of I'm going to keep trying new stuff. It's not it's about sticking with something and keeping going until you become successful. You will, of course tweak tactics, change things, but the mission, the goal. Get on the pitch score goals. Great. Maybe yours is get on the pitch. Start writing content, accumulate an audience. Maybe it's get on the pitch. Start acquiring customers. That's it just acquire customers. Everything else can wait.

[00:19:55] And it can wait. It really can. There's so much stuff that we're told, Oh, that the score is like this, you know, this is the score board. This is the dashboard. Like, fuck. I need to go and fix that. And you don't. Chances are, you're not a nuclear power station. You don't need to pay too much attention to the dashboard until the lights.

[00:20:16] That's not to say that certain metrics aren't worth measuring to see if you're heading in the right direction. My point is that you probably don't need to fix it right now. A lot of this stuff, which people see as exclusively important, isn't actually that important. Imagine.

[00:20:32] If you look at the dashboard and it shows you the score.

[00:20:38] And he says, what are you doing to fix it right now? Because a lot of this stuff you can fix, you know, in a year's time or two year's time. Yeah. Oh, Oh, okay. You just need to keep going. You need to keep doing what you're doing and keep doing it every single day. MailChimp is one of my examples, MailChimp, which now has, I think it was $400 million in revenue. Uh, it's probably gone up since then, because that article was a few years old.

[00:21:05] MailChimp is bordering on a household name. Large businesses use it. It's designed for e-commerce originally. It was just a newsletter platform. They just wanted to make it easy to send newsletters. And it is known as the platform that you can sign up to for free you get, I don't know what it is. 1,000 people on your list, whatever, get some automation, the features and the details. Aren't important.

[00:21:28] But they were founded in 2001, 2001. And even when I started using them properly back in. I don't know, 2015. People knew them, but people not, everyone knew them. They were still massively inside the growth phase. They were still massively trying to go for. Like the next step.

[00:21:54] 2001, imagine how many businesses have come and gone since then. Imagine how many businesses bigger than MailChimp. Have come and gone. Yahoo mail. I mean, who the hell uses that anymore? Who uses Yahoo 2001 heyday. Startup let's give them the benefit of the doubt. So the tooth starting 2001, and they start to achieve some semblance of a business model and success by 2005. So they've been going for years by that point.

[00:22:23] 2005. What was your life back in 2005 Facebook wasn't around. If it was, it was in its infancy. Hardly anyone knew and knew what it was. And it was still a four university students. When I joined Facebook back in 2000. Seven 2008, something like that. You had to have a university place to be able to use it. People forget that.

[00:22:48] But in 2005, Was there mass email marketing. We know there was now.

[00:22:55] But they were up against it. My space was big. Everyone thought that my space was going to be the next big thing. Where's that now? I think they're like a music site now, is it. YouTube was kind of around, it was coming out.

[00:23:09] Base camp, which everyone knows the project management system. And by the way, Uh, people often don't like it when I, or when anyone uses these big names. Cause they're like, yeah. Base camp has been around for years. They're not the same as me. The point is that they are the same as you, when you start.

[00:23:24] That's the point? No, they are light years ahead of where you are now. Hundreds of thousands of customers, small team. Could have gone to the billion dollar valuation. But didn't. They were founded in 2004. And they went through a lot of changes. A lot of changes. And people say I don't like base camp. That's a relevant fuck that what I'm talking about is that they stuck with it.

[00:23:50] Base camp has only been massively successful and widely adopted. Maybe in the last two or three years, maybe. In 2014. They had been going for 10 years in 2011 MailChimp had been going for 10 years. Next year MailChimp will be a 20 year old company. And we hear these bullshit stories of, Oh, this kid has started this company within three years, it's worth $1 billion and he sold it and exited that is so unbelievably rare. That is the equivalent of winning the lottery. And that's the bullshit statement that people try to go after.

[00:24:30] People try to build these hail Mary bullshit businesses that are become unicorns and valued at $1 billion or valued at 100 million, an exit within three years. It doesn't happen. It is fluke upon fluke upon flute. And for people to say, Oh, you know, it can happen. This is how I did it. Bullshit, bullshit. It's never, ever that simple. We've only seen recently with Dan Bilzerian who had that bullshit.

[00:24:55] What was it? Hype. Fuck boy. Business. I don't know what it was called. They didn't really sell anything. They'll kind of a media company turns out it was all a big scam. Turns out it was. Hundreds of millions of dollars worth of debt. It was basically a Ponzi scheme at collapsed in on itself. Turns out he's a complete moron. His father was done for fraud, who was still part owner of the business.

[00:25:17] Uh, Jim shark, for example, is one of the examples that people use. Yeah, the guy, I forget what the guy's name is, who set that up and it's whatever it's worth a hundred million or billion dollars. Now, as a company, people forget that it had a huge financial, two huge financial backers, I believe one or two huge financial backers behind it.

[00:25:36] Who would set up businesses before. It's not to take anything away from those guys. But it's like saying, well, this guy won the lottery. In a complete fluke, which is why they're newsworthy by the way, because it's complete fluke. I want to make that kind of business as well. And if I don't do it in three years, I'm going to go off to something else.

[00:25:59] At the end of a game of chess, all the pieces go back in the same box. All right. It's an Italian proverb. It's actually to do with death. Okay. At the end of a game of chess, the pawn and the King go back in the same box. And I love that. Because it takes the pressure off having to become the best or reach a certain point.

[00:26:18] But here's, what's interesting. Let's say that it takes you 25 years to build a business that is worth selling. Now whether you want to sell it or not is irrelevant, but that's, let's say that that's the goal. That's the score, or it takes you 25 years to run a business where you only work three or four days a week.

[00:26:34] A week. Uh, or less than that three or four days a month and it runs itself and it does seven figures and it pays for your kids' college education and pays for your lifestyle. Great. Now, if someone achieves that in three years and it takes you 25 years and you both reach it, what the hell do you care?

[00:26:51] Once you've reached it. What do you care? All the pieces go back in the same box. The difference is that you get to decide how long you're playing for. My last example is Jo Pavey. She's a bit of a local hero here. She's a one of the ship. So she actually has still the world record for the over 40.

[00:27:10] Uh, half marathon, I think, is it. I can't remember. Uh, something, something insane, like, Mmm. The, uh, the, her, her, or maybe it's a 10 K distance. I can't remember. Jo Pavey was born in Horton here in the UK, uh, in the town that I live in, the town that my wife Olivia was born in.

[00:27:31] At the age of 45. She is the longest track competitor in Olympic games. The oldest British track competitor in Olympic games. History. So she's been competing since 1997. And in 2012, when we had super Saturday, she was a part of that. Right. And she was a part of super Saturday. When she first started running the world championships in Greece, she then, uh, she put to the semifinal.

[00:27:58] Naturally a very good runner. She is an outstanding runner. She's actually got faster and better with age, in my opinion, but the data shows that she had a sharp drop-off when she started out she's young and experienced a lot of pressure, 2000, 2001, 2002. 12th place 11th place. Uh, 2004, she gets to the heat. She has a couple of like third places. Outstanding. And by the way, I want to say, I'm not saying that she didn't achieve anything during those.

[00:28:25] Uh, years, she absolutely did. She had some of the fastest times in British history and in some cases, a world history.

[00:28:33] But the point is that at the age of 45, that was in 2017. We're going to be having another Olympics now in 2021. So she will be pushing 50, 49, 50. She'll be a competing in. The Japanese, the Tokyo. Olympics. She gets to decide how long she's running for. And she has got better over time. She's got goals. She's got silvers, not in Olympics.

[00:28:58] Uh, but I should stress in European championships. Um, and in world championships, she's got third. I think the reason I love Joe. Is because first of all, she's lovely. We met a couple of times. She's absolutely delightful lives. Run with a she's just. A lovely person.

[00:29:17] But she's continued to run. And she said, well, actually I decide how long I run for. And now she's getting into like legendary status because you just keeps running. She just keeps going. Imagine at the age of 49 to be, and it's possible, she might not, but she's aiming for it. There's articles saying that she wants to go for 20, 20 or 2021.

[00:29:39] The Tokyo Olympics. Imagine just being there, like, yep. I'm still going. I think a lot of people. Are in that kind of step phase or that mindset where they're like, I'd rather be really good at something and quit while I'm ahead and quit while I peak. Personally, I want to be dragged away from what, what I'm doing. I want people to say you're done Mike.

[00:29:58] I get to decide how long I play for. Right. I get to decide. Joe gets to decide. Base camp could have quit at any point. And they've had problems. They've absolutely had problems.

[00:30:11] MailChimp could acquit. They have had huge problems. MailChimp was one of the first companies to really think about, uh, email design and mass email marketing for just average people. When I was doing marketing back in rod a. 2010, 11. This is for large corporate companies. It costs us tens of thousands of pounds to set up those kinds of tools. A MailChimp said, actually, we're going to do it for like 30 bucks a month. And they will, they will laugh that man people laughed them out of the room because they said, what did ridiculous idea now MailChimp is the standard by which people say it's like, when you say.

[00:30:48] Vacuum or when you say Hoover, but you mean vacuum or when you say tannoy, but you mean like PA system. Like I'll have you got a Tesla? When I say electric car, when they say, have you got an intender when they mean games, console? Let me say, Oh, we could use something like MailChimp. Or just use MailChimp and what they mean is a CRM or a CMS system.

[00:31:08] Like an email marketing system.

[00:31:13] Jo Pavey started running 1997, still going base camp founded 2004 MailChimp 2001. Next year will be their 20th year. I don't even use mail. Same with active campaign active campaign founded in, uh, you know, the early two thousands or, or, uh, kind of early 2010s. They've been going a long time. A long time.

[00:31:34] Overnight successes take seven, eight, nine, 10 years. Plus. An enormous length of time before anyone really starts to take notice of them. But so many people decide to pack it in because they're looking at the score. They're saying other people have achieved more in the same timeframe or less timeframe, or by the time they were three years old, their business was three years old.

[00:31:57] Yeah, they had, they had achieved this. Fuck it. Ignore it, man. It's got nothing to do with it. You, the only thing that matters is playing the game and that you get to decide how long you're playing the game for.

[00:32:09] Guys, thank you so much for spending some time with me today. Massively. Appreciate it. Stop keeping score, because that is other people's jobs. My name's Mike Killen, make sure to have to sell your service pod.com for the website. Or you can, if you're listening to this already, I don't know why I need to tell you this, but you can download it on like your favorite apps on Stitcher or Podbean or.

[00:32:29] Podcast addict or whatever. I think we're on Apple and Google as well. So go ahead and check that out. If this podcast was useful, please, please, please let me know. Head over to the website and leave a little comment or shoot me an email. Michael is sell your service dot code at UK. Make sure to join the Facebook . Sell your service.co.uk forward slash Facebook.

[00:32:48] Uh, and in the meantime, I will see you on the next episode. Thanks very much. Have courage commit and take action. 


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